The Big Interview: 'That's a great question!'
PLUS: A svelte version of The week That Was and the Weekend That Will Be
It’s been a fascinating oval-ball week for a variety of reasons. So much so that I decided to interview somebody that enjoys both codes and put to him some pressing questions. It’s a person I’ve got to know pretty well over the years, although to this day the corners his brain wanders into still perplex me.
Nice to talk again Cleaver, so tell me, were you more comfortable watching a game (rugby) that was an exemplar for trying to make an inherently unsafe game safer, or the state-sponsored violence of the league on Wednesday night?
Ooh, good question Dylan! Do you know what, I’m probably more comfortable with what rugby is trying to do; to get the tackling lower and to make the collisions at the breakdown less dangerous. Yes, they’ve gone too far and we’re seeing sanctions that don’t fit the crime - you’ll never convince me that Angus Ta’avao deserved red for being caught reacting a split-second too slowly to a switch - but if the long-term results of rugby’s crackdown are less head injuries and a more entertaining game where offloads are more prevalent and the breakdown becomes less important, then I can take the short-term pain.
The State of Origin on the other hand was barbaric, and there’s no hyperbole there. I’m not talking about the concussions, which were accidental, but there were guys out there flat out trying to maim each other. Quite how Tino Fa’asuamaleaui stayed on the field I’ll never know and the sight of Jarome Luai flexing over a distressed Selwyn Cobbo was sickening, no matter if he knew he was concussed or not.
Right, fair enough, now repeat the above exercise but replace “were you more comfortable watching” with “which did you enjoy watching more…”
Hmmm, I had a funny feeling you were going to go down this path. While I found the first half of the second test against Ireland compelling viewing, when you strip it of the cards drama, it was actually terrible rugby.
The State of Origin on the other hand was gripping from start to finish and the execution of skills under white-hot pressure was incredible.
In terms of pure entertainment, SoO won this by (pauses to choose word carefully) a knockout.
Dig a little bit deeper into that please because you’ve stated in the past that although it’s close, you prefer union to league.
I was talking to a friend in the sports marketing business about this just this morning…
Yes I know, I was on the call.
… yeah, sorry, and he said something that resonated, which I’ll try to paraphrase accurately.
In league, you might disagree with decisions like forward passes, loose carries or stripping the ball, but they don’t determine how the game is played.
Rugby referees, on the other hand, literally determine how the game is going to be played by their application of the laws, which ones they are going to apply to the letter and which ones they’re going to treat in a more laissez-faire manner.
Because World Rugby referees boss Joël Jutge is such a pedantic jobsworth, all internationals have become box-ticking exercises (you knew Jaco Peyper didn’t actually want to send Ta’avao off on Saturday) and referees have become fearful of leaving boxes unchecked.
They have gone from being a neutral arbiter to a site foreman, and rugby has too often become a joyless place of work because of that.
Can that be easily changed?
No, not easily.
Leaving aside the safety aspects, which isn’t easy when you are facing a lawsuit from a bunch of ex-players who believed you’ve laundered the risks of brain disease, it would require a seachange in the way you view sports administration.
One of the beauties of league is that its bosses are so nimble. If there is backlash from fans about an aspect of the sport they can change it overnight. They can do that because there is, despite what league diehards say, very little international pushback.
The sport is utterly fan conscious because in Australia the competition for eyeballs is key. If the NRL is entertaining it gets the best broadcast rights deal. With the best broadcast rights deal it can attract the best athletes.
There is no comparison with rugby. If you want to trial a slight variation on a single law it has to go to Stellenbosch, then to a domestic competition and then, even if it’s a roaring success, a gin-soaked fish-head trying log in to his Zoom meeting from his estate just outside Stow-on-the-Wold can veto it.
In the broadest terms, everything league does is fan focused whereas most of the things rugby does are participant focused.
It should be noted that in no way does this mean everything league does is good and everything rugby does is boring. Far from it - it’s just an illustration of the different sensibilities and administrative machinery at play.
Is there a sneaky subtext in all of this where you’re placing the blame for this unconvincing era of All Black rugby on the officials?
No. Hell, no. They’ve had instances of bad luck recently, but there wouldn’t be a fan of any team in rugby that couldn’t point to that.
I was merely trying to draw a couple of curved lines to explain how we get to the point where we have a weirdly compelling yet terrible game of rugby on the Saturday, followed by a wildly entertaining, maniacally brutal game of league on Wednesday.
And, I guess, how we’ve got to a point where league players can dangerously attack their opponents and it barely warrants a mention, yet rugby is trying to make the game safer and in the process - with all the stops and starts and checks and slow motion replays of rucks four phases ago - have inadvertently fetishised head contact.
All this thinking is quite exhausting. Can we wrap this up please?
Sure, who’s going to win on Saturday?
As the massively overrated John Lydon once said, “Anger is an energy”. The All Blacks should have plenty of that this week. I’m just not sure they’re very good. I scanned the team list with eager anticipation yesterday and went, “Looks, OK”.
Ireland 22 New Zealand 22.
THE WEEK THAT WAS
It was basically all All Blacks angst, captured best by the enigmatic Kris Shannon in the Herald ($).
It’s hard to believe any fan would want the All Blacks to lose. It’s very easy to believe, however, that some were able to find a silver lining - if not an outright smirk - in defeat.
Now that Foster has plummeted to a lowly 70 per cent win rate, the drums that beat in quite good timing for a bit of breakdancing are only growing louder.
Apparently, the unemployment rate in this country is low, which erudite columnists tell me is bad, so could there be a two-birds solution to increasing that figure and fixing the All Blacks?
Oof!
Every now and then I see Richard Irvine wandering around the North Shore of Auckland or the Bay Oval of Mt Maunganui and he looks completely normal. But ‘completely normal’ can’t come up with a 250-word column on Steve Hansen’s renovations that will have you L’ingOL.
Hansen has been able to inform his box design with ideas from years on the pro rugby circuit. It has a sparse aesthetic centred on functionality, with the exception of storing an unused air fryer and Weetbix card collection in a box labelled ‘Sallies’.
In less important matters, on the eve of the 150th anniversary of the Open Championship, The Guardian’s Andy Bull has outlined the hypocrisy of golf’s governing bodies anti-LIV Golf stance. He’s right, but it doesn’t alter the fact that everybody should have an anti-LIV Golf stance.
The hard part for [Martin] Slumbers, [chief executive of the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews], is that he isn’t really able to explain why the R&A is so dead set against LIV. The obvious answer is that they don’t really want the competition. But that won’t wash. And the other is Saudi Arabia’s human rights record, which is a tricky proposition too, given that the national golf federation is an affiliate member of the R&A and has received development grants from the body in the past. The Saudi International was part of the European Tour circuit just last year. It wasn’t so long ago the authorities were encouraging the players to go.
THE WEEKEND THAT WILL BE
Heading to Cambridge this weekend for a playdate with friends, so my weekend watching will be selectively sparse. Cambridge is an endlessly fascinating place.
I’m convinced that if Stephen King had grown up in New Zealand rather than Maine, Cambridge or Havelock North would have provided the settings for his gothic horror. On the surface very pleasant, moneyed towns, maybe even a little twee, but when the lights go out… whoa, keep your wits about you and know that at all times someone or something, is watching you!
Top of the shortlist of sports is THE BIG MATCH. Can’t remember the last time I’ve looked forward to a home test this much, although the fallout if the home side loses doesn’t bear thinking about. You’re not meant to feel sorry for politicians or All Black coaches but if the unthinkable happens, it might be a week for earplugs.
All Blacks v Ireland, 3rd test Wellington, tomorrow 7.05pm, Sky Sport 1
An understrength Black Caps have been made to work hard, seriously hard in game one, for their series win. It would be nice to see a complete performance, although I’ll restrict myself to dipping in and out of it.
Ireland v New Zealand, 3rd ODI Malahide, tonight 9.45pm, Spark Sport
Likewise the Open from St Andrews. I stayed up far too long last night watching Rory McIlroy plunder the Old Course while hoping for a glimpse of Ryan Fox.
I’m not a big golf watcher so I’m probably in the minority here, but I’ve always preferred links golf just for the sheer variety of shots required. You need that ball tracking though, otherwise picking up tee shots is like trying to find a flea in a dark carpet.
The Open, Rds 2-4 St Andrews, tonight to Sunday, 5.30pm tonight and 9pm Sat-Sun, Sky Sport 6
That’s about all I’m going to have time for but there’s a bit on, including the Tour de France (Sky Sport) which has been 🔥 this year, the other three North v South rugby deciders (all Sky), the hockey World Cup finals (Spark), the once-again-lovable Warriors v Eels tonight (Sky) and the strange netball series between the Silver Ferns, their back-ups and the men’s team (Sky).
