I watched the White Ferns play England yesterday. I am in despair. I know England are full of talent but from 79 for 6 in the 17th over, we should have won by at least 50 runs instead of losing by four wickets. I don’t know if a deep dive on the state of New Zealand women’s cricket is on your agenda Dylan, but someone needs to figure out the myriad problems, causes and possible solutions because NZC don’t seem to be. To make it more poignant, there was a 40th reunion of players from a tour of England and Netherlands, where they played county teams and tests. Tests! OK, three dayers, but even so, one four day one would be a miracle at this point.
In positive AFL news, and giving New Zealanders more reasons to watch, a Kiwi had an excellent debut for Richmond on Sunday. Mykelti Lefau played well, helping the Tigers to their first win of the season (to be clear, he wasn’t the only reason, far from it, but he did good).
Tanya I been in despair for our white Fearns since 2013. Since 2012 .. our ladies have not made a World Cup semi final in any icc cricket event . The last time the white fearns have played a test match was in 2004, i email an Australian reporter for the ABC on why woman’s cricket in nz was weak this was back in 2020, she couldn’t understand why we had players like bates, Devine, Kerr playing in the oz league that we gone backwards. That is the problem we only have 3 world class players, they feel the pressure when they playing for NZ, some of the batting technique by our players are shown up too many of them only played leg shot shots, especially with spin, our fielding is very weak, prob got 4 world class fielders, our bowling attack lacks the basics such as keeping extras down, or bowling too many 4 deliveries.
I feel sorry for the other woman sports who get little or no coverage compare to our white fearns who get ball to ball live coverage including domestic cricket,
Unfortunately tvnz is a cheerleader for the white fearns, what we need is people like Dylan cleaver actually giving insight to why they not very good.
I always like your comments re the White Ferns. The state of the women's game is interesting. There's a boat load of funding for it and some great people involved at grass roots level, but that's often at odds with some associations being terribly disorganised. An example, our high school team were supposed to be a part of an inter-district, six school comp that we piloted with great success at the end of last year.
We were told to get ready for this year Term 1. Nothing materialised. Heard that the person organising it went on holiday and forgot to do it. Yeah.
Thanks Dave, I really appreciate your comments on the same, particularly since you know what’s happening at grassroots level, whereas I’m just watching international and some domestic stuff. That failed inter-district comp seems to sum up the state of New Zealand’s women’s cricket. How gutting for all involved who were keen to get stuck in. We will never be able to compete in five to ten years’ time in World Cups if associations treat high school teams like that. Apart from anything else, I hope it didn’t cause too many of the girls to lose heart and go and play all the other sports available to them.
Women's cricket in NZ is a nettle very difficult to grasp at the moment. There are considerable issues at both the pointy end and the grassroots of the game. They do warrant closer examination. There have been some 'wins', particularly around contracting the best players, but the losses are also considerable. You can't just pay players and say, 'OK, you've got a bit of cash now, be better.' They also need well-directed resourcing - of which there is little.
Cricket now provides genuine pathways for the best talent. The WPL is going to mushroom, I believe, into something massive, but if I was a talented cross-sport female athlete in NZ at the moment, would I look at cricket as my best option? Almost certainly not, and that is a problem.
"You can't just pay players and say, 'OK, you've got a bit of cash now, be better.'"
Bluntly: NZC (and the MAs) can and do - they think throwing money at the problem solves it, but disorganisation and lack of empathy for girls and families is endemic in our Associations. They overlook that there is not the population of 'Mums who played' to pick up the slack, whereas boys cricket benefits from the 'Dads who played'. They obsess about cricket not the cricketers, if that makes sense, and girls stop caring about cricket when they very quickly realise cricket just does not care about them.
Add to this the sheer incomprehensibility of White Ferns contract and selection decisions (Izzy Gaze is our best wicket-keeper??). We do have better depth and skills than some might say - but they are abjectly corralled by those with power. Why?
Our DA has been great re getting women involved- everything from Prems women comp through to twilight, have a BBQ and bring your daughter type games in a non-threatening environment. This sort of stuff is a nice gateway.
The missing link for us is the stuff for the 'middle' type players. It's basically either 'have-a-go' cricket, or show up and get demolished by powerhouse schools. The last two years our DA has put together a couple of cool little tournaments that have helped, so long may that continue.
There's a whiff of nepotism around the White Ferns isn't there...
I can only return the compliment - that's exactly what's happening. A lot of interest generated at the very 1st level, programmes in schools and so on. But after that its such a narrow focus, and if you aren't in that favoured few, you might as well forget about it. There were always, and always will be, a few powerhouse schools. That's life. But the rest are just giving up because its been made clear they aren't important - so they can just be cannon fodder for the top schools, and/or they get to fit into arrangements made to suit those preferred teams. The 'Balance is Better' programme that NZC is supposedly committed to is just given lip-service
It's just so frustrating - such a great sport being frittered away from within
I am relieved it’s not just me, looking in from the outside thinking there appears to be a lot of systemic issues at play, but I don’t know enough (read, anything) about what happens at school and association level to know what those issues are. What I see are performances and also items like emails from, in my case, Northern Districts asking for money because the women’s team don’t have the right bats/enough bats. I’m sorry, what??
I agree Dylan, the WPL is only going to get bigger and bigger (that’s great and terrible at the same time). Between the WBBL, the Hundred, the Vitality Blast and the Fairbreak Tournament, there are so many options - none of which are here.
I’m playing a long game here - I want to be watching a New Zealand women’s team in 25 years time, performing well on the international stage, with competition for places strong because of the thriving domestic scene, supplemented by star turns in a six month WPL (because dreams have to meet reality I suppose).
I wonder if we are in the same MA Dave (Otago) or we can at least sympathise with each other across MAs. Your story sounds familiar, and its not the only one I have
Schoolkid sport has lots of interesting undertones generally but my god cricket (especially girls' cricket) is the most incompetently managed one of them all. And given the resources and time it requires from families, it needs to be one of the best run.
I really get the feeling each year our cricket association is surprised by summer arriving
Na but gee I've heard some stories out of Otago that chill me to the bone. We are CD. Parts of our MA are really well organised and done, but then others are not (see my earlier anecdote). Then you throw in little 'mafias', dusty organisation due to high turnover of staff (vs a low turnover of volunteers), annual mini-debacles (see PlayHQ as an example) and cricket ends up looking like a basket case. We currently have an amazing RDO for girls in our area; I fear the day she moves on to bigger and better things.
Girls (leading into womens) cricket has never had such a golden opportunity to launch. Poor organisation will see current levels of good will quickly evaporate.
I am Oscar. Frankly the OCA is a shambles and can’t run grassroots cricket or elite teams. It’s the volunteers that keep grassroots cricket going as well as it is.
Completely agree, on both points. And OCA do not take criticism well at all, so not sure how we improve it
As volunteers get worn out dealing with it all and give up, things will keep getting worse. Couldn't believe the state of junior rep cricket for girls this last summer.
Hope you had a nice Easter break! Some random thoughts:
- Something's wrong in that White Ferns set up- I'm not sure what, but just doesn't seem happy. Weird.
- It's a broad generalisation but many ex players are painful as sports 'journalists'. Calling their old mates by their nicknames and not asking any probing questions is hideously boring. Just as painful are the manufactured disagreements on panel shows that can neatly be clipped onto social media.
- Few of the kids I teach follow Super Rugby either. They love a TikTok highlights package. Make of that what you will- sad aye...
- Speaking of kids, schoolboy rugby teams playing 20 games per season before rep stuff and before 7s tournaments is a lot in my opinion. Factor in all the contact training in between and sheesh that's a big shift. Some great people and great kids involved in many cases but boy oh boy- a lot.
Agree with all your points. Given my chosen vocation, I particularly agree with your second point. A real low for me is sports journalism resorting to lifting these "manufactured disagreements on panel shows" and repurposing them for print and publishing. Look at the Daily Mail and the News Corp sites in Australia and it is full of this cross-pollination rubbish.
I've probably ranted here before on Super Rugby scheduling before Dylan. As you called out this weekend was at it's worst. Half the season they play 4 games on a Saturday and none on a Sunday. In those weeks you have 28hrs from 5pm East Coast Australia Friday night to 9pm Saturday night with 6 games jammed in. The NRL is running 8 games over 72 hrs from Thursday night. It's worse here as you also have AFL as an active competitor. Sunday afternoon is often the only free slot busy families have.
About two weeks ago, I read a report covering the Bulls vs Stormers match in Pretoria - I think. The crowd was given as near sell-out, which would mean something like 50,000 plus. I watched the highlights which certainly showed packed grandstands. The comparisons between rugby crowds in the UK, France or SA vs NZ is marked. The game, from a spectator view point, is dying in NZ. Sad but true. We have been poorly served by the game's administrators for some years. Can it recover, to the levels of where it was during Super 12? Not a chance.
"The Warriors 20-12 win over the Knights in a re-run of last year’s home playoff by contrast wasn’t an amazing game"
And yet - it was a better watch still than a Super Rugby game. The atmosphere of the crowd is part of that, it comes across on the telly (especially with the drumming back), as well as the 'keep your eyes on the screen as something could happen' nature of the gameplay
Hmmm rugby....interesting your point about Super 12 Dave, when I look back it was almost an era where after having been rationed rugby teaspoon full by teaspoon full we were able to binge on rugby for the first time. I vividly remember following NPC in the 80s and 90s where your team played 8 games a season and only half those at home. Scarcity drove appreciation and then it went professional and it was like a giant sugar hit. There’s a lot more to the current malaise than that of course but it’s part of it. You just knew that with every team added to the Super comp over the years that it became less “super” but every time the NZRU administrators argued it would “grow the game” etc. Palpable BS but they convinced themselves that the answer to diminishing value was to water the product down even more.
I honestly believe rugby is poked in this country. Like it or not the success of rugby historically was its single minded, hard nosed attitude at the elite level and catering to its loyal constituency at grass roots. Nowadays the NZRU and players association is totally distracted by serving every last fashion / woke cause (e.g. the Poua and TJ Perenara show) and in doing so is pleasing no one and thumbing it’s nose at those who made it what it was. They’re turning away in droves. Most recent the only just established Pasifika Advisory board is splintering and making allegations with strong racial undertones which Patsy Reddy & co will have to take seriously because it happened on their watch.
There’s no doubt rugby had to change at some level but the governance review saw every flaw in the system and none of the strengths. The clamour to reject provincial reps on the board has been full of anecdotes about the “bad old days” and the supposed ineptness of previous provincial reps, but what of a fully independent board? No one seems interesting in asking the question who they represent or who the real stakeholders of NZ rugby are....
Meanwhile the game itself continues to die a long, slow painful death.
I watched the White Ferns play England yesterday. I am in despair. I know England are full of talent but from 79 for 6 in the 17th over, we should have won by at least 50 runs instead of losing by four wickets. I don’t know if a deep dive on the state of New Zealand women’s cricket is on your agenda Dylan, but someone needs to figure out the myriad problems, causes and possible solutions because NZC don’t seem to be. To make it more poignant, there was a 40th reunion of players from a tour of England and Netherlands, where they played county teams and tests. Tests! OK, three dayers, but even so, one four day one would be a miracle at this point.
In positive AFL news, and giving New Zealanders more reasons to watch, a Kiwi had an excellent debut for Richmond on Sunday. Mykelti Lefau played well, helping the Tigers to their first win of the season (to be clear, he wasn’t the only reason, far from it, but he did good).
Tanya I been in despair for our white Fearns since 2013. Since 2012 .. our ladies have not made a World Cup semi final in any icc cricket event . The last time the white fearns have played a test match was in 2004, i email an Australian reporter for the ABC on why woman’s cricket in nz was weak this was back in 2020, she couldn’t understand why we had players like bates, Devine, Kerr playing in the oz league that we gone backwards. That is the problem we only have 3 world class players, they feel the pressure when they playing for NZ, some of the batting technique by our players are shown up too many of them only played leg shot shots, especially with spin, our fielding is very weak, prob got 4 world class fielders, our bowling attack lacks the basics such as keeping extras down, or bowling too many 4 deliveries.
I feel sorry for the other woman sports who get little or no coverage compare to our white fearns who get ball to ball live coverage including domestic cricket,
Unfortunately tvnz is a cheerleader for the white fearns, what we need is people like Dylan cleaver actually giving insight to why they not very good.
Agree with all of that Pete. I wish all our goodwill towards wanting them to do well would translate into consistent on the field performance.
I always like your comments re the White Ferns. The state of the women's game is interesting. There's a boat load of funding for it and some great people involved at grass roots level, but that's often at odds with some associations being terribly disorganised. An example, our high school team were supposed to be a part of an inter-district, six school comp that we piloted with great success at the end of last year.
We were told to get ready for this year Term 1. Nothing materialised. Heard that the person organising it went on holiday and forgot to do it. Yeah.
Thanks Dave, I really appreciate your comments on the same, particularly since you know what’s happening at grassroots level, whereas I’m just watching international and some domestic stuff. That failed inter-district comp seems to sum up the state of New Zealand’s women’s cricket. How gutting for all involved who were keen to get stuck in. We will never be able to compete in five to ten years’ time in World Cups if associations treat high school teams like that. Apart from anything else, I hope it didn’t cause too many of the girls to lose heart and go and play all the other sports available to them.
Women's cricket in NZ is a nettle very difficult to grasp at the moment. There are considerable issues at both the pointy end and the grassroots of the game. They do warrant closer examination. There have been some 'wins', particularly around contracting the best players, but the losses are also considerable. You can't just pay players and say, 'OK, you've got a bit of cash now, be better.' They also need well-directed resourcing - of which there is little.
Cricket now provides genuine pathways for the best talent. The WPL is going to mushroom, I believe, into something massive, but if I was a talented cross-sport female athlete in NZ at the moment, would I look at cricket as my best option? Almost certainly not, and that is a problem.
"You can't just pay players and say, 'OK, you've got a bit of cash now, be better.'"
Bluntly: NZC (and the MAs) can and do - they think throwing money at the problem solves it, but disorganisation and lack of empathy for girls and families is endemic in our Associations. They overlook that there is not the population of 'Mums who played' to pick up the slack, whereas boys cricket benefits from the 'Dads who played'. They obsess about cricket not the cricketers, if that makes sense, and girls stop caring about cricket when they very quickly realise cricket just does not care about them.
Add to this the sheer incomprehensibility of White Ferns contract and selection decisions (Izzy Gaze is our best wicket-keeper??). We do have better depth and skills than some might say - but they are abjectly corralled by those with power. Why?
I really can't like this comment enough.
Our DA has been great re getting women involved- everything from Prems women comp through to twilight, have a BBQ and bring your daughter type games in a non-threatening environment. This sort of stuff is a nice gateway.
The missing link for us is the stuff for the 'middle' type players. It's basically either 'have-a-go' cricket, or show up and get demolished by powerhouse schools. The last two years our DA has put together a couple of cool little tournaments that have helped, so long may that continue.
There's a whiff of nepotism around the White Ferns isn't there...
I can only return the compliment - that's exactly what's happening. A lot of interest generated at the very 1st level, programmes in schools and so on. But after that its such a narrow focus, and if you aren't in that favoured few, you might as well forget about it. There were always, and always will be, a few powerhouse schools. That's life. But the rest are just giving up because its been made clear they aren't important - so they can just be cannon fodder for the top schools, and/or they get to fit into arrangements made to suit those preferred teams. The 'Balance is Better' programme that NZC is supposedly committed to is just given lip-service
It's just so frustrating - such a great sport being frittered away from within
I am relieved it’s not just me, looking in from the outside thinking there appears to be a lot of systemic issues at play, but I don’t know enough (read, anything) about what happens at school and association level to know what those issues are. What I see are performances and also items like emails from, in my case, Northern Districts asking for money because the women’s team don’t have the right bats/enough bats. I’m sorry, what??
I agree Dylan, the WPL is only going to get bigger and bigger (that’s great and terrible at the same time). Between the WBBL, the Hundred, the Vitality Blast and the Fairbreak Tournament, there are so many options - none of which are here.
I’m playing a long game here - I want to be watching a New Zealand women’s team in 25 years time, performing well on the international stage, with competition for places strong because of the thriving domestic scene, supplemented by star turns in a six month WPL (because dreams have to meet reality I suppose).
I wonder if we are in the same MA Dave (Otago) or we can at least sympathise with each other across MAs. Your story sounds familiar, and its not the only one I have
Schoolkid sport has lots of interesting undertones generally but my god cricket (especially girls' cricket) is the most incompetently managed one of them all. And given the resources and time it requires from families, it needs to be one of the best run.
I really get the feeling each year our cricket association is surprised by summer arriving
Na but gee I've heard some stories out of Otago that chill me to the bone. We are CD. Parts of our MA are really well organised and done, but then others are not (see my earlier anecdote). Then you throw in little 'mafias', dusty organisation due to high turnover of staff (vs a low turnover of volunteers), annual mini-debacles (see PlayHQ as an example) and cricket ends up looking like a basket case. We currently have an amazing RDO for girls in our area; I fear the day she moves on to bigger and better things.
Girls (leading into womens) cricket has never had such a golden opportunity to launch. Poor organisation will see current levels of good will quickly evaporate.
Thanks for reminding me of PlayHQ, Dave ... had nearly suppressed that memory
In a way its good to hear we aren't alone here, but I really hope no others are as bad as Otago.
Couldn't agree more with your last sentence - so much opportunity, and so much risk of it being wasted through basic incompetence.
I am Oscar. Frankly the OCA is a shambles and can’t run grassroots cricket or elite teams. It’s the volunteers that keep grassroots cricket going as well as it is.
Completely agree, on both points. And OCA do not take criticism well at all, so not sure how we improve it
As volunteers get worn out dealing with it all and give up, things will keep getting worse. Couldn't believe the state of junior rep cricket for girls this last summer.
Hope you had a nice Easter break! Some random thoughts:
- Something's wrong in that White Ferns set up- I'm not sure what, but just doesn't seem happy. Weird.
- It's a broad generalisation but many ex players are painful as sports 'journalists'. Calling their old mates by their nicknames and not asking any probing questions is hideously boring. Just as painful are the manufactured disagreements on panel shows that can neatly be clipped onto social media.
- Few of the kids I teach follow Super Rugby either. They love a TikTok highlights package. Make of that what you will- sad aye...
- Speaking of kids, schoolboy rugby teams playing 20 games per season before rep stuff and before 7s tournaments is a lot in my opinion. Factor in all the contact training in between and sheesh that's a big shift. Some great people and great kids involved in many cases but boy oh boy- a lot.
Agree with all your points. Given my chosen vocation, I particularly agree with your second point. A real low for me is sports journalism resorting to lifting these "manufactured disagreements on panel shows" and repurposing them for print and publishing. Look at the Daily Mail and the News Corp sites in Australia and it is full of this cross-pollination rubbish.
I've probably ranted here before on Super Rugby scheduling before Dylan. As you called out this weekend was at it's worst. Half the season they play 4 games on a Saturday and none on a Sunday. In those weeks you have 28hrs from 5pm East Coast Australia Friday night to 9pm Saturday night with 6 games jammed in. The NRL is running 8 games over 72 hrs from Thursday night. It's worse here as you also have AFL as an active competitor. Sunday afternoon is often the only free slot busy families have.
Those first two photos - no or little spectators.
About two weeks ago, I read a report covering the Bulls vs Stormers match in Pretoria - I think. The crowd was given as near sell-out, which would mean something like 50,000 plus. I watched the highlights which certainly showed packed grandstands. The comparisons between rugby crowds in the UK, France or SA vs NZ is marked. The game, from a spectator view point, is dying in NZ. Sad but true. We have been poorly served by the game's administrators for some years. Can it recover, to the levels of where it was during Super 12? Not a chance.
"The Warriors 20-12 win over the Knights in a re-run of last year’s home playoff by contrast wasn’t an amazing game"
And yet - it was a better watch still than a Super Rugby game. The atmosphere of the crowd is part of that, it comes across on the telly (especially with the drumming back), as well as the 'keep your eyes on the screen as something could happen' nature of the gameplay
Hmmm rugby....interesting your point about Super 12 Dave, when I look back it was almost an era where after having been rationed rugby teaspoon full by teaspoon full we were able to binge on rugby for the first time. I vividly remember following NPC in the 80s and 90s where your team played 8 games a season and only half those at home. Scarcity drove appreciation and then it went professional and it was like a giant sugar hit. There’s a lot more to the current malaise than that of course but it’s part of it. You just knew that with every team added to the Super comp over the years that it became less “super” but every time the NZRU administrators argued it would “grow the game” etc. Palpable BS but they convinced themselves that the answer to diminishing value was to water the product down even more.
I honestly believe rugby is poked in this country. Like it or not the success of rugby historically was its single minded, hard nosed attitude at the elite level and catering to its loyal constituency at grass roots. Nowadays the NZRU and players association is totally distracted by serving every last fashion / woke cause (e.g. the Poua and TJ Perenara show) and in doing so is pleasing no one and thumbing it’s nose at those who made it what it was. They’re turning away in droves. Most recent the only just established Pasifika Advisory board is splintering and making allegations with strong racial undertones which Patsy Reddy & co will have to take seriously because it happened on their watch.
There’s no doubt rugby had to change at some level but the governance review saw every flaw in the system and none of the strengths. The clamour to reject provincial reps on the board has been full of anecdotes about the “bad old days” and the supposed ineptness of previous provincial reps, but what of a fully independent board? No one seems interesting in asking the question who they represent or who the real stakeholders of NZ rugby are....
Meanwhile the game itself continues to die a long, slow painful death.